Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Well, today is election day in Ontario and Manitoba, and I'm lucky enough to have Mike and Paul on the road fresh from Sault Ste. Marie. Blue skies, they're traveling back. How you doing, guys?
[00:00:17] Speaker C: Good. Thanks, Paul. Happy election Day.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: Happy election day.
So what do we have to look forward to? I just was. I woke up this morning, I thought, okay, I wonder how many people are thinking about voting.
And so, yeah, pulled up some stats, and I was interesting. I took a look. I started with Ontario, of course, and I took a look at Ontario, I said, okay, there's 11 million eligible voters, 16 million people, you know, legally or, you know, reported live in Ontario.
And last in 2022, we had 33% of them vote in the municipal election, so about one in three.
And then I pulled up Manitoba and
[00:01:03] Speaker C: I thought, that's really. That's abysmal.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: It is abysmal. And I thought to myself, okay, Manitoba's got to be better.
So. And it was, quite frankly, it was about 55% of the 884,000 eligible voters. A lot smaller province, of course, population wise. But it was interesting and I thought to myself, wow, that it kind of bummed me out a little bit because, you know, we. We saw recent votes in the referendum, and then we saw what happened in B.C. on the weekend with the snap elections. All poor turnouts, quite frankly, all under 50% turnouts. And I thought, wow, why are we not making the impact when it comes to voting?
[00:01:46] Speaker C: So, wow, that's a. That's a really great question. It's funny, we just passed one of the voting polls in Sault Ste. Marie, by the way, one of the signs I just saw, Sunny Spina is running for council, so good luck. Sonny and Joel Roswell running for mayor, so good luck to them.
But the. There was no, Certainly no lineup. Not a lot of cars outside the polls, but, you know, early in the day. But to your point, it's endemic. I think that now it seems to be how Canadians operate at election time.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: And certainly municipal kind of follows as the third tier, so to speak. And the expectation of above 50 is
[00:02:30] Speaker C: not even there, but it's so important at the municipal level to vote.
[00:02:35] Speaker B: It is.
It is important. And, you know, so I started off, you know, I made this list because I was coming to the show and I thought, you know, I wonder if people directly or indirectly, just don't focus on the reasons, because if you decide not to vote, if you give up your rights to vote, you're either doing it because you don't have time you're doing it because you don't care. You're doing it because quite frankly, you don't want to be active. But are you thinking of the flip side of this? And that's why I wanted to do this show with you guys from the road. So thank you and just, just list off a number of reasons why you should vote. A very quick favor before we continue. A large percentage of you who watch or listen to TPL Media every week aren't subscribed yet. Our simple commitment to you is that if you find value there, if these discussions make you think, if you want our uncensored debates, deeper dives and extended sit downs, head over to TPLMedia CA and subscribe there directly. It takes just five seconds, costs nothing, keeps you informed. So thank you. Now back to the show.
[00:03:46] Speaker C: Oh, that sounds like a good, that sounds like a good activity for us to participate in because it is really, really. I don't know that I think we get so focused on federal politics. Not even municipal, I mean not even provincial, as I mean BC demonstrated. But yeah. And even over the referendum, I really think that our, our focus needs to be more at the municipal level if we really want things to change in our lives.
[00:04:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. Well, and the first that ties into what I had, my first reason every vote can matter.
So many elections, especially municipal or local ones, actually are decided by very small margins. So I wanted to, I popped that up because quite frankly I just wanted people to get a feel for, you know, and I'm going to use just a couple.
Well, I'm going to ram off a number of them. But in 2023 for the by election, it was the municipal by election for mayor. After the John Torn, John Tory kerfluffle, Toronto went to the polls to pick a mayor and there were 1.9 eligible people on that list at the time.
37% voted for the mayor. So 566,000 people.
And then I went to. In 2003, there was 2023. There was also the mayor election in Mississauga and believe it or not, 31% of the eligible people went and voted, which made up 43,000 people to pick the mayor of Mississauga.
[00:05:24] Speaker C: That's wild. I mean I almost won that election
[00:05:28] Speaker B: and I didn't even run a population of 764,000 people and 43,000. So you can imagine how few votes were made back in 22 when the councilors were elected.
So every vote matters because quite frankly it can influence the outcome in your community. So that's why?
So, you know, if you're going to complain about the outcome, and I'm going to say this a number of times today, basically, you have to get out there and vote because your single vote can influence that outcome. And, you know, the numbers are so low. So I'm gonna. I'm just gonna rhyme off a few of these. But where do you think this is a. This is a little bit of a test for you guys. Where do you think the highest voter turnout in Ontario exists?
What? What city?
Ooh,
[00:06:28] Speaker C: Like percentage of population.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Percentage of population, huh?
[00:06:33] Speaker C: I'm going to say.
Wow, that's a good question. I'm gonna say it would be in one of the major centers, whether it's Toronto or.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: Well, it's interesting because. Yeah, it's interesting. It's Ottawa.
And. Okay, it's the highest version. Voter turnout at 43.8%.
[00:06:57] Speaker C: Sure. Because those are the people that know that federal politics don't mean anything to their lives.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: You could also argue there's more people engaged in politics in Ottawa, in the industry, somehow, so they understand its value greater. But I don't know. That's pushing it.
[00:07:12] Speaker C: Well, it's possible.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: You think any level of. Paul, you know, this is municipal, but you think any level of government. Government, you think they would turn out en masse because of their understanding of it. But we don't even get over 50%. And, you know, just a quick one. The lowest. So the lowest city is oshawa, and it's 8. 18% turnout.
[00:07:36] Speaker C: 18. That's incredible. And that, by the way, Oshawa, the beautiful schwa, is not exactly the elegant center of the universe. They could really use somebody focused on rebuilding that community properly.
[00:07:50] Speaker B: Exactly. With all the issues going on, you think they'd be out on Mass with the automobile sector and everything going on. So it's interesting because, you know, you look, I think we talked about, you know, the number of eligible voters in Ontario, you know, being 11 million people, and you look at the turnout rates, it's unbelievable. So Toronto, in the last 2022 election got 29% of the people turned out. So the turnout rate, Mississauga was 21%.
London was 25%. Vaughan was only 27%. Kitchener. 20, Oakville. I was shocked at Oakville, which is 28.3%. I thought given the demographics of Oakville and the, you know, the nice homes, the wealthier people, more, you know, higher education I thought would be higher. It actually, Windsor beat Oakville and voter turnout at 31.5%.
Richmond Hill was 31 one and a half percent.
40, 42% in Sudbury, better than I thought it would be.
Barry, 30, Guelph, 26, Kingston, 30%, Thunder Bay, 43%. The smaller towns seem to get more people come out.
Brantford, 27%, Pickering, 27% and Niagara Falls only 27%. Which I thought because they're border cities, they'd have more interest in impacting what was going on in their border.
So again, every vote matters was my first reason, because quite frankly, if there's small turnout, it doesn't get the democratic voice.
And that was the second thing I came up with.
So, number three, number two, it holds leaders accountable.
[00:09:43] Speaker C: It does.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: So you're.
[00:09:45] Speaker C: It does. Because if you just allow somebody to become an incumbent, if you just allow your mayor to stay in for eight terms and you don't like what's going on, this is the number one way to hold them accountable and get them replaced.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: It's interesting. Brad Bradford is using this tactic on Olivia Chow in Toronto right now. He actually switched his course of direction about a month or so ago. He's roared back in the polls to actually be neck and neck on this election. And he did it by coming up with, I think it was a brilliant slogan. Whoever came up with it for him, is your life better than it was three years ago? So he asked this, and you know, we should keep the mayor accountable for that.
And so elections allow you to reward mayors for doing a good job or a bad job. And he used that to his advantage. And I think to me, that was a brilliant tactic. And I think it made. It resonated with me because it made me think for a minute. Yeah. No, it's not.
So, you know, that'll impact.
[00:10:47] Speaker C: Yeah, that, that is. That is a good slogan. There's no two ways about it.
[00:10:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
Being a numbers guy. Number three on my list was democracy depends on participation.
So.
And what I mean by that is high voter turnout strengthens democratic system and prevents power from being concentrated in a small group.
So that's where I was going with that. Just playing the odds. So you think about it.
If you're running for office and you can go get a small group of people to support you because. And get you elected because voter turnout is so low, you're playing the. It's the. It's the law of numbers. It's the law of odds, quite frankly. So if. If voter turnout slipped to 20% and 27%, quite frankly, and you're only. You're in a city or municipality or a riding that only has 50,000 people. Your odds of success, depending on the small group of people you can assemble because become higher so, you know, more people come out and vote and turnouts are higher. Your ability to do that is weakened. Therefore, it doesn't consolidate power into people's or groups that can actually consolidate voter blocks.
[00:12:13] Speaker C: That's really true. I mean, if. If this goes all the way across the gamut to the conspiracy theorists out there that think the world is being run by a specific group, I would wonder what the voter turnout for those people are. But having said that, if you want things to change, if you think that there's something going on that's untoward, that it's leaning toward a certain sect or a certain sector of business or anything, that it's likely that you could have stopped that by actually casting a vote and doing the research on the. The candidates in your neighborhood.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree, Mike. Yeah. And so often, you know, having lived in different countries in my lifetime, so often you've seen small groups of people control massive amounts of power because quite frankly, they were able to assemble pretty minute blocks of people to actually get an election or sway an election. And quite frankly, I've always struggled with that because I understand the process, I understand how that can happen.
It just never seemed totally fair to me. If you totally play the law of numbers based on low turnouts, next thing I had was rights are not guaranteed. And so this is one, and I'm going to talk about the next one in a minute, which is Remembrance Day. But if you think about all the people and all the groups that fought for the ability to vote and how activism over the years have actually assembled and allowed people, you know, to allow those rights to be exercised and not eroded and not gerrymandered and not intimidated. You know, if. If anyone respects the history of Canada, they understand how important is to maintain that right.
Because that right in a lot of countries is taken away at times, is actually deferred at times.
So, you know, if you come from another country where it was eliminated or deferred, you, you'd think you would be the first one out there to actually vote.
[00:14:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that that's a really good point. If you come from someplace where you were oppressed in any way, voting at every level seems to have more importance to you.
And, you know, this is your opportunity, if you're not taking it now, to build the country that you want to live in. Really. I mean, there was, when we were growing up, you know, Paul and I grew up in the same neighborhood, not Too far from you, there was a burgeoning influx of the Italian community.
Well, that integration of the Italian community quickly turned to political involvement as well. And so during the 80s and 90s, even. Even during the 70s, we started to see the Italian community stepping forward.
And, you know, it really made a difference to what was built in the neighborhood, how the neighborhoods were laid out. Many of the people in. In the area where we grew up were part of the construction industry that has made Ontario what it is today. They had ideas, and so they recognize coming to Canada, they're going to have more rights and more opportunity to build their community. They got involved.
This is the same thing. And you see this as well in parts of Ontario, certainly in Brampton, Mississauga, you know, in Surrey is another place that we saw it. You start to see now the South Asian community getting involved.
This is how you build the country you want to live in, that you came to.
This is how you integrate your ideas into your new society.
And so to that end, Paul, I think it is really important that people remember that your rights are not guaranteed.
You keep them by keeping your government.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Exactly, Mike. You know, and the next point I had on this was tied to it is, quite frankly, coming up to Remembrance Day, you know, it honors those who actually suffered and those who died in the name of the country to keep that democracy going. There you go. You got the poppy going. Yeah, so. And all of you, you know, I actually, in all my businesses, distribute poppies to every one of my team, and I talk about Remembrance Day and I talk about how people suffered and died in the name of democracy in order for you to vote. And you don't necessarily have to be from here to understand that. So you hit on it, Mike, that a lot of people come from away in different countries, and they immigrate here, and they bring those experiences with them where they've actually seen wars, they've fleed from wars, they've came here as immigrants, they've seen communism, they've seen different types of government, and how, when they get here, how. How voting for that democracy is so important. And you. I just want to remind people that. So if they. If they've decided that, you know, things in Canada are, you know, tough or they're not going the way they want it to go, there's worse. There's a lot worse, quite frankly. And a lot of the people that you meet from. From other countries understand that. So that's. That's why. I can never figure why certain groups don't vote, and they Come from countries where they've seen this.
[00:17:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:48] Speaker A: That is puzzling. And I can make a general suggestion that maybe they're so jaded that they feel that what was happening in their own home, in its own way, happens in our democratic society. And the people running are all bought off or connected in ways where they don't want to support any of them. So they.
But that's not an answer.
[00:18:10] Speaker C: Well, yeah, I mean, I think that that then becomes.
It behooves us to. Yeah. To explain. Okay. No, this is really how you. There's not a corruption at that level here. There isn't this fixing of votes that we know of. I mean, there have been. Well, but it is our. It's our duty really, to say to new Canadians, new citizens here in Canada, here's how you register. Here's how. Here's why. Here's why. Here's all the precautions that we take to make sure we have fair elections. Because that could be true if you come from a country that is corrupt and elections are bananas, you know.
Yeah. You might have that opinion.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: But then not participating, that's just a weird response.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: It is a weird response. And whether it's direct or indirect, you know, I'm too busy or quite frank. I just don't want to.
That's why I think you have to question Paul, the rationale. And, Mike, what is your rationale and why do you believe that? And is what you're believing true, or are you believing, quite frankly, that elections aren't. You can't impact the elections? Are you believing that elections aren't. You're in a country that has fair elections for democratic purposes and they're done.
There are mistakes. Of course there are. There are errors that happen in elections all the time. Are they in, like, in countries where, you know, we just did one.
[00:19:37] Speaker A: Where.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: And I'm trying to remember the country it was in, but quite frankly. Oh, it was in.
Was it in.
Oh, it's going to come back to me. Were they eliminated?
[00:19:50] Speaker C: The election that comes to my mind is the. The election that comes to my mind is actually was a national election and happened impromptu and it was even. It was executed. Okay. Is in Nepal. I mean, they actually, I think that they. They, you know, they use discord to do it.
We have an actual electoral system here that is, you know, certified and federally observed.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: Well, it was actually in India. Sorry. And it just came to me. It was the Indian election and it was the. And, you know, it's un. It's not verified yet, but they're the protesting group that's actually protesting now, the young students and that, that are actually the Cockroach Party, they're actually making allegations that 142 million votes were eliminated from the voting roll.
So that's not. Yeah. Now, whether that's true or not, it's, it's. We can't verify it. But, but if, if even part of it's true, that's, that's shocking that, that many people would be eliminated from a voting roll. But that doesn't happen here. So I just want to.
[00:20:58] Speaker C: That's really true. And it's a big thing. I'm glad, actually, Paul, you brought that up because, you know, maybe this reaches somebody who's new to Canada and we can say to them, no, you know, by and large, we've got this thing democratized.
Hey, before we go any further, please hit the subscribe button right now. If you want the raw debates, the full uncut conversations you won't see here, head straight to TPL Media, ca subscribe and lock in your membership. Trust me, you don't want to miss what happens behind the paywall. All right, back to the show.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: The next thing I had on my list was your voice shapes your decisions and policies that are decided, affect your everyday life. And you know, this one, it seems simple, but it's just to explain to people that whether every, you know, government impacts schools, healthcare, transportation, taxes, job security, public safety. I'm probably missing about 10 others. You know, on the local level, from, you know, garbage to waste disposal to water, there's, there's all kinds of things that, that are impacted by governments and governments on a municipal level in different shapes or form, and they play into it.
So, you know, voting lets your leaders deciding on who your leader is changes or directs what will happen in your life and alter whether your values and priorities are reflected in that leader. So you have to remember that because quite frankly, you look at the policies of the person you vote for, you vote for them on the policies that impact you the most and the ones you want to see in your community. And if you decide not to, you can't complain that those policies are either shaped against you or formed differently than you would like. Because that's true.
[00:22:46] Speaker C: Because they're not, they're not formed against you. Because you had no input. Yeah, you had no input.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: Yeah, you had the ability. That's being in a democracy. And those are the things that I, even to this day, you mentioned. Why do people not vote? I just don't think they tie.
And I do this from the different teams I have, I explain to them how business works and how it impacts them.
And sometimes it sounds silly, but I sit down with my team at the beginning. I say, okay, if we give better customer service, if we give it provide a better product, if we do these things, it's going to increase our revenues. Increasing our revenues will mean our business will grow. You know, incomes will grow for them. You know, tips will grow for them. Here's the. And I walk them through and I say, okay, everyone needs to understand how this works, because it doesn't work. You know, this isn't, know, a fully subsidized economy. This is a business. So we have to figure out how it works. Government, on the other hand, you know, it's. It's different, but it is same. It's business like, but it's not a business.
It has deficits. It has policy decisions based on their accountability and their financial circumstances. So, you know, we're about to go through a federal budget coming up on November 5th. Well, already, I don't know if you noticed over the weekend, but the Conservative Party with Pierre Poliev are asking for an inquiry into the budgets coming up. So, like, finally, by the way, Paul,
[00:24:19] Speaker C: you and I and, and all of us at tpl, we were wondering when somebody would do this.
[00:24:26] Speaker B: Right. I agree, Mike. And on the municipal level, it's just the same. So, you know, you're.
And the provincial level, the provincial level in B.C. on the weekend, you saw a huge snap election that turned into a huge defeat of the NDP party and the Conservative Party coming in just another. And a lot of it was based on a $14 billion deficit that the province is carrying. On the municipal level, it's the same discussion. So you should be asking today on your municipal votes, you know, is your city doing better or worse financially? How's that impacting you potentially? And where does that end up taking you as a taxpayer?
You know, is that going to mean increased property tax? Is that going to mean less services? Like all these things are things that you have to be asking municipally to say, okay, you know, how do I vote? Why do I vote? And, you know, if I want less property taxes, okay, less property taxes, am I okay with less services? Okay, if that's my decision matrix from a person, your individual, then that is the decision I should be making, picking someone who's going to give me less property taxes. Those are all the decisions that have to happen.
[00:25:42] Speaker C: You know, Paul and Paul, we discovered while we were away voting online municipally was really easy to do.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: Yeah, there's another, there's another reason for why opt out when they've made it even easier.
[00:26:04] Speaker B: I think Oshawa went online because such as, you know, a while ago because all the, the terrible voter turnout coming into the show, they were telling me they're trying to get more people. It's the, again, it's the lowest turnout, voter turnout in the province. And so I think that, that's why
[00:26:21] Speaker C: I think that we could be in a place, Paul, where we do need to operate this as an online scenario mainly because Canadians, in my, this is just my opinion, yes, it's important to get out and vote and I don't want to make excuses for people who don't. But maybe it is time, and you guys can disagree with me, maybe it is time that we modernize the process of voting at the municipal level. Maybe we even modernize the interaction at the municipal level ongoing throughout a four year term so that there are many referendums, so that there are the ability for people to voice in and really make a difference. So I think that, that, and I know we're all afraid of what can happen online but you know, in Alberta the other day we were waiting for hand counted votes to sway an election that everybody had won the night before.
So, you know, I think that might be to this end time to modernize a little bit, take it online, make an app, you know, an encrypted app of some sort.
[00:27:30] Speaker B: If you look at the numbers that I just rhymed off, Mike and Paul, it really does indicate that some things needs to change because it is getting such a low number or so the turnout is so low.
The next thing. It was one of the last things on my list and if you haven't just let me know. But it strengthens your community. So for communities. I was thinking about this when I was thinking of the reasons and I started thinking about Hamilton and we're talking about the challenges the steel industry is having right now and we're some other places across Canada with tariffs having similar challenges. But it's by voting at any level, whether it be municipal, whether it be provincial, federal, it actually allows you to consolidate your voice, your point of view, your political power and start to gain influence through your resources that actually issue attention to the issue in your area.
If no one turns out, if no one votes, it's very hard to make an argument. So think about it from a government perspective. If you have a low turnout, are people going to our government officials going to spend a lot of time paying attention to Your issues?
Probably not.
[00:28:50] Speaker A: No reason to.
[00:28:51] Speaker B: No, they're going to, they're going to pay attention to the issues of the small group of people that voted them
[00:28:57] Speaker C: in, which is usually, which is usually self interest in business, actually.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So next time the vote happens, the people that are going to run for election are going to focus on that group or small group of people that actually voted, either the last person in the incumbent or you. So quite frankly, you're going to be left out of the equation for a number of years by not voting because the only data. And for those people who have not participated in an election, one of the key things you do when you start forming to run for any office is you take a look at past polling and you take a look at past voting and you start to form where the power voting structures are located and you'll see it. You make the announcement, you know, this group's endorsing this person, this group's endorsing that person, the police are endorsing that person. What they're doing is they're trying to find large groups of people who will actually back them so they can get voted in based on low voter polls, low voter turnout. And so by doing that, they're focusing on only the people that are voting. So you're taking yourself out of the decision equation not only for probably one voting cycle, you're probably taking yourself out of the voting equation for two to three voting cycles. And I really wanted to kind of end with that one.
[00:30:18] Speaker C: That's a really good point.
That equation is really, really important.
You have to make change now with your vote because if you don't, the ripple effect of that is several years of potentially what you don't want.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. You're looking at a decade. You're basically, if you decide not to vote this election and the election turnout is really low and a small group of people basically capture the vote and get the nominee they want in place for whatever position, whether it be a councilor or a mayor, then you're probably forfeiting your ability to alter that decision for almost a decade unless there's a real change election. So.
[00:31:04] Speaker C: No, that's really true.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: I just bring that up because it's very important.
[00:31:08] Speaker A: Yeah, because a lot of times we see the name recognition of once someone new gets in through their people that they assemble in a low turnout vote. Once they're in, they become, oh, reelect. So four years later, that's the name they become more familiar. So again, with the low turnout, it just naturally flows.
[00:31:29] Speaker C: Hazel McCallion Frank scar Pitti, Stephen Del Duca.
You know, I, we can do this across the province, certainly, and name the people that get in on, on name records.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: And it's on repeat. Unless there's a severe sever in society, in the economy, it's just on repeat.
You even get children, children of a person with a significant. Remember Linda Jackson?
[00:31:54] Speaker C: Linda Lorna Jackson. Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:56] Speaker A: Goes down the line.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and, and yeah, thank you guys because that, that is a really good example. And you know, we're a few hours away from the outcome of, of the municipal elections in Manitoba and Ontario. So I wanted to do this show because I wanted to get it out in the, in the morning and you know, before just around noon and we hopefully can impact a few people that'll change their mind, see it on social and head out and vote because if you don't, you see all the impacts. And quite frankly, I appreciate you guys taking the time. I know you had to pull over, stop, and you know, it was interesting. I want to tell this quick story, but when. Well, we're having some technical difficulties. Mike called me up and said, you know what, we're going to pull over. It's going to delay us getting home. And I appreciate because they've been on the road for a week and I appreciate they, how much they probably want to get home.
So taking the time, very much appreciate it because hopefully we make a difference.
[00:32:57] Speaker C: Yeah, this is important. Go ahead and post it, guys. Thanks, Paul.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: Thanks a lot.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: Thanks. Drive safe.
